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PERMANENT DEATH BY PLAYER CHOICE 2013 & 2014
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jvalenti
Sat Jan 26 2013, 05:51PM
Joseph Valenti

Registered Member #68
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:35AM
Posts: 600
PERMANENT DEATH BY PLAYER CHOICE 2013 & 2014

Starting January 01, 2013, for 2 years and 1 month, NERO will allow the players who pull a black marble when drawing from the bag of chance to choose one of multiple options.

In December/January of 2013/2014 and 2014/2015, we'll review the decisions made by our customers and if there was any noticeable difference or impact upon game play (good or bad) and we'll decide if this customer service oriented policy we believe will increase the fun members have at game and retain more customers than we lose due to the permanent death of a members character they held dearly.

National is giving the player their choice of several options to see which one is preferred. Thus we have no build pressure point directing them to 'what the game wants'.

If a character dies and fails to get a life spell in the required time, during the period when the player is pulling from the bag of chance, if the player draws the black marble, the player will need to make the immediate decision as to whether the characters death was 'good' or 'bad' and the player will need to choose if they want the character to permanently die or stay alive, how much build they want their character to have, and how quickly they want to get back to the level where they once were.

If they choose not-to-perm their character, the black marble is changed to a white marble and the player goes and Resurrects her character, choosing one of these options and decreasing their skills as they so choose
1. Play a New or Same Character at 30% - grow at regular build progression.
2. Play a New or Same Character at 30% - grow at 10 build per 1-day event.
3. Play a New or Same Character at 50% - grow at 5 build per 1-day event.
4. Play a New or Same Character at 50% - grow at regular build progression.
5. Play a New or Same Character at 70% - grow at 5 build per 1-day event.
6. Play a New or Same Character at 70% - grow at regular build progression.

National firmly believes that once everyone takes a look through the reasoning, they will conclude that there are a very diverse set of opinions on the topic and really the best thing for us to do as an organization is to see what decision is made by the actual players who have their character permanent die in 2013.

REASONING FOR THIS CHANGE

1. The decision to retire a NERO Character should be made by the nero member - the player. NERO Members currently have the choice play a different character except in a rare circumstance where a roll of the dice makes the decision for them – is this fair?

2. NERO Members invest time and energy on the character they play. They spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on multiple sets of costume for 'that character' and spend hours building relationships in-game with others whose company they enjoy.

3. Some Players do not want to loose the player character they've played for so many years, because of the bond they create with the character, its adventures, and all their 'nero' friends – and this is what we as NERO Organization are trying to accomplish, for our member to love their character and their prestige in the game so much that they keep coming back for more of the same!

4. People will not meta-game knowing they will lose 25% to 75% of their characters build each time they pull the perm marble and just run into situations where they die and and cannot be saved – therefore resurrecting. On the contrary, they will run in and perform more feats of heroism because dieing won't be the worst thing in the world anymore. Sure it will suck to sit out some of the combat while I'm waiting for the life spell and then for resurrection (Or field rez), or to lose your stuff, or to lose x percent of your build, but it won't suck so much that you want to stop LARPing and find a new hobby or start playing the same character at anther non-nero larp because the NERO Organization told you that you are not allowed to.

5. In-game, all people on the planet of Tyrra want to stay alive. No one runs into certain death blindly unless they have a darn good reason. It's the rarity of the act and the painful result that creates heroes and heroines, just like the real world. If players want to feel the rush of running wildly into certain death situations without the fear of losing their 10 year character and all her memories, they will be able to do it.

6. No one 's character will know they cannot permanently die, only NERO Member know that. The player who picks the black marble - out of game - will know when she picks the black marble, if the yshould die in 2013. So, only the Player knows they can choose 25, 50 or 75% of their characters build if they choose to “change the black marble to white”.

7. IN-GAME? No player character in-game will really know that they can “negotiate with the Registrar before entering one of the 13 graveyards, or that the Registrar will offer the chance to go back to the land of the living but with a decreased amount of 'power (Build) that the Registrar with 'take' and use for her own purposes” in-game, until it happens, and if someone who chooses to use the option not to perm tells anyone about their level decrease and meeting with the Registrar, and then if, in game, that information spreads throughout the entire continent of Avalon, and by then the year 613ER ( 2013 out of game) will be over, and we'll have evaluated the results as a organization

8. Some NERO Members have expressed that they want to see characters permanently die. These players will have the choice to perm their characters and not take the perm / retire package, just ;like every other member, so they will not be unaffected except maybe at-the-local-game if they have no way to become a noble or other-prestigious title because it has been held for years by the same person who will likely never leave (Yay for the local chapter and the nero organization!).

9. Any nero member may choose to retire their own character from game play at any time. The people who play multiple characters and aren't really attached to any fo their characters will not be affected by this change to allow those members who do-care if they lose their character choose not to and continue right on playing (Yay for the local chapter and the nero organization!)

10. The levels of character will be too high in ten years – no way. The levels of characters in the NERO Game will never be too high. We'll have 250th level, 50 year members, and the game will always be able to entertain that customer. We just need to make sure that everyone’s character is the right level for the year, and we've been working for the last few years to review every high level character out there so we could start the next 15 years with everyone in the DB and everyone to be earn 110%

11. We can have 100th level characters, and we will, and the game will still be awesome, but we need to make sure all of the build earned is from the right ratio of game attendance, plot submission, role-play sessions, build purchases, material donations (and home depot gift cards), and volunteer time.

12. We have lost many many players over the years because their favorite character permanently died, and if we can save even one player from feeling miserable about the permanent death of their character, and if we stop just that one person from leaving the NERO family because their character perm'd, we need to try it.

13. No one wants to be the plot person who permed a 10 year character (unless you're a bad person). Every time you hear about someone's character permanently die, we all call them up and give our condolencses – just like as if we lost a person out of game that we all loved – because we all did love that character, we will miss that character, and that just plain sucks for some number of people (though it does give great role play opportunities, let's let the player choose when to have that role play instead of randomly forcing it on them)

14. Players remain with NERO because they developed a character in the game that is 'alive', and they have an enjoyable time, are included in the chapters storyline, and are engaged when they attend a nero larp event.

15. Characters rarely die at NERO Events because they do not want to lose their character and so they play very cautiously and walk around in mobs of more than 10 (the strategic number for a chapter imho) - all so they do not have to pick form the bag of chance.

16. Permanent death fuels adjudication more than anything else - everyone is afraid to lose their character so they try and adjudicate every death they get.

17. This policy might increase the number of pc vs pc deaths we encounter, since perming wont mean losing your character forever.

18. No one is going to throw themselves at death in-game, simply because oog she thinks "I can't die, the worst that will happen is that I will be substantially weaker for a long time.” She'll do it because they want to try and be the hero – overcome really tough odds - or they want to die like a hero and be remembered in this famous battle!

19. Plot staff won't have to worry that every death could possibly be the one that ends a player's characters story. “What's Your Story” should not be “I permanently died, until the player wants his story to be that story).

20. plot teams will no longer feel the need to pull punches in certain circumstances. Plot staff will be less likely to administer first aid or take a dive if they have 50% of the players on the ground. Random and planned encounters can be tough without the fear of ruining a players event or nero career, and can generate more heroes as more powerful and more intelligent foes need to be overcome.

21. Chapters might want to implement a policy where nobles who come back significantly injured from resurrection will be required to take a leave of absence – but that will be up to the local chapters (and National is handing out titles of prestige too so that local chapters can focus on producing awesome events!

22. When players lose their character to perm death, they lose in-game memories, stories of adventures, in-game relationships – they effectively must start over, and not everyone likes starting over.
23. Some players dread rebuilding their new character to the same level as a different character – it's those we want to remove the dread from.

24. Some players dread having to play a low level character again – “I did that 20 years ago and now I am in 'sit around and role play and support everyone else mode.'

25. This is similar to the way Renaissance fairs do it – people choose who they play at each event and can decide of their characters own level of expertise in whatever field they 'work' at the fair.

26. This is how many other LARPS throughout the world play it – players characters can die, and though it is very unlikely that anyone will, everyone fights and plays as if they 'know' their character can die.

27. I personally played in a LARP game very similar to what we are proposing while in Germany at Mythodea LARP with two of my staff members. We didn't worry any less about our character dieing because we knew that npc's never administer killing blows and really no one ever dies while we were 'in game' – we played our characters hearts out right alongside all the other 4,000 attendees and did everything we could to keep us and our friends from dieing when we engaged in combat.

END
======================

[ Edited Sat Aug 30 2014, 03:00PM ]
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silway
Sat Jan 26 2013, 06:47PM
silway
Registered Member #55
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:07AM
Posts: 106
Quick question. What happens if you pull black, choose an accelerated build regain option, and the the"play test" period ends before you have regained all your build?
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JosephColucy
Sat Jan 26 2013, 06:56PM
Registered Member #6443
Joined: Thu Jan 03 2013, 05:56AM
Posts: 27
1. The decision to retire a NERO Character should be made by the nero member - the player. NERO Members currently have the choice play a different character except in a rare circumstance where a roll of the dice makes the decision for them – is this fair?


Yeah they are running around stabbing and spelling people/monsters down. Its a risky life style.


2. NERO Members invest time and energy on the character they play. They spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on multiple sets of costume for 'that character' and spend hours building relationships in-game with others whose company they enjoy.

So what. They chose to play the game. Its part of the game. This is a lame excuse.


3. Some Players do not want to loose the player character they've played for so many years, because of the bond they create with the character, its adventures, and all their 'nero' friends – and this is what we as NERO Organization are trying to accomplish, for our member to love their character and their prestige in the game so much that they keep coming back for more of the same!

I chose to not lose at the lottery, Doesn't mean anything.

4. People will not meta-game knowing they will lose 25% to 75% of their characters build each time they pull the perm marble and just run into situations where they die and and cannot be saved – therefore resurrecting. On the contrary, they will run in and perform more feats of heroism because dieing won't be the worst thing in the world anymore. Sure it will suck to sit out some of the combat while I'm waiting for the life spell and then for resurrection (Or field rez), or to lose your stuff, or to lose x percent of your build, but it won't suck so much that you want to stop LARPing and find a new hobby or start playing the same character at anther non-nero larp because the NERO Organization told you that you are not allowed to.

Yes they will...

5. In-game, all people on the planet of Tyrra want to stay alive. No one runs into certain death blindly unless they have a darn good reason. It's the rarity of the act and the painful result that creates heroes and heroines, just like the real world. If players want to feel the rush of running wildly into certain death situations without the fear of losing their 10 year character and all her memories, they will be able to do it.

Just wow....


6. No one 's character will know they cannot permanently die, only NERO Member know that. The player who picks the black marble - out of game - will know when she picks the black marble, if the yshould die in 2013. So, only the Player knows they can choose 25, 50 or 75% of their characters build if they choose to “change the black marble to white”.

Yeah they will know as soon as the first person comes back! "what happend?" "I don't know I just forgot how to use alchemy?!"

7. IN-GAME? No player character in-game will really know that they can “negotiate with the Registrar before entering one of the 13 graveyards, or that the Registrar will offer the chance to go back to the land of the living but with a decreased amount of 'power (Build) that the Registrar with 'take' and use for her own purposes” in-game, until it happens, and if someone who chooses to use the option not to perm tells anyone about their level decrease and meeting with the Registrar, and then if, in game, that information spreads throughout the entire continent of Avalon, and by then the year 613ER ( 2013 out of game) will be over, and we'll have evaluated the results as a organization

Yeah they will. And go ahead and evaluate now cause this is all bork.

8. Some NERO Members have expressed that they want to see characters permanently die. These players will have the choice to perm their characters and not take the perm / retire package, just ;like every other member, so they will not be unaffected except maybe at-the-local-game if they have no way to become a noble or other-prestigious title because it has been held for years by the same person who will likely never leave (Yay for the local chapter and the nero organization!).

Some?! Like 77% of the people in the survey!

9. Any nero member may choose to retire their own character from game play at any time. The people who play multiple characters and aren't really attached to any fo their characters will not be affected by this change to allow those members who do-care if they lose their character choose not to and continue right on playing (Yay for the local chapter and the nero organization!)

This is like the only thing i've read in this that is not complete crap so far.

10. The levels of character will be too high in ten years – no way. The levels of characters in the NERO Game will never be too high. We'll have 250th level, 50 year members, and the game will always be able to entertain that customer. We just need to make sure that everyone’s character is the right level for the year, and we've been working for the last few years to review every high level character out there so we could start the next 15 years with everyone in the DB and everyone to be earn 110%

CAUSE YOU ARE GOING TO BE SELLING BUILD! And not forcing the few people that do die and it doesn't get adjudicated actually die.


11. We can have 100th level characters, and we will, and the game will still be awesome, but we need to make sure all of the build earned is from the right ratio of game attendance, plot submission, role-play sessions, build purchases, material donations (and home depot gift cards), and volunteer time.

What does this have to do with perm death?


12. We have lost many many players over the years because their favorite character permanently died, and if we can save even one player from feeling miserable about the permanent death of their character, and if we stop just that one person from leaving the NERO family because their character perm'd, we need to try it.

Then they didn't love the game and good riddance.

13. No one wants to be the plot person who permed a 10 year character (unless you're a bad person). Every time you hear about someone's character permanently die, we all call them up and give our condolencses – just like as if we lost a person out of game that we all loved – because we all did love that character, we will miss that character, and that just plain sucks for some number of people (though it does give great role play opportunities, let's let the player choose when to have that role play instead of randomly forcing it on them)

Its great sitting around telling stories.

14. Players remain with NERO because they developed a character in the game that is 'alive', and they have an enjoyable time, are included in the chapters storyline, and are engaged when they attend a nero larp event.

Also a pointless statement.

15. Characters rarely die at NERO Events because they do not want to lose their character and so they play very cautiously and walk around in mobs of more than 10 (the strategic number for a chapter imho) - all so they do not have to pick form the bag of chance.

People that roll in large groups are usually going to keep playing the game because they like those people.

16. Permanent death fuels adjudication more than anything else - everyone is afraid to lose their character so they try and adjudicate every death they get.

No they don't, I don't even buy my deaths back. And death buyback should be exponential by the way. Thats how you get build out of the game...


17. This policy might increase the number of pc vs pc deaths we encounter, since perming wont mean losing your character forever.

How is that a good thing?

18. No one is going to throw themselves at death in-game, simply because oog she thinks "I can't die, the worst that will happen is that I will be substantially weaker for a long time.” She'll do it because they want to try and be the hero – overcome really tough odds - or they want to die like a hero and be remembered in this famous battle!

Yes they will

19. Plot staff won't have to worry that every death could possibly be the one that ends a player's characters story. “What's Your Story” should not be “I permanently died, until the player wants his story to be that story).

Plot should always be conscious of their actions.

20. plot teams will no longer feel the need to pull punches in certain circumstances. Plot staff will be less likely to administer first aid or take a dive if they have 50% of the players on the ground. Random and planned encounters can be tough without the fear of ruining a players event or nero career, and can generate more heroes as more powerful and more intelligent foes need to be overcome.

its called scaling, Good plot teams know how to do it.

21. Chapters might want to implement a policy where nobles who come back significantly injured from resurrection will be required to take a leave of absence – but that will be up to the local chapters (and National is handing out titles of prestige too so that local chapters can focus on producing awesome events!

Lame

22. When players lose their character to perm death, they lose in-game memories, stories of adventures, in-game relationships – they effectively must start over, and not everyone likes starting over.

Thats their problem. Should of planned ahead. If you don't have multiple PCs thats your fault. We know the rules of the game and know people PCs die.

23. Some players dread rebuilding their new character to the same level as a different character – it's those we want to remove the dread from.

Lame

24. Some players dread having to play a low level character again – “I did that 20 years ago and now I am in 'sit around and role play and support everyone else mode.'

Plan AHEAD! NPC/donate/staff get goblins. Build a back up.

25. This is similar to the way Renaissance fairs do it – people choose who they play at each event and can decide of their characters own level of expertise in whatever field they 'work' at the fair.

WOOOHOO I got dual-school 8 blocks! Cause I fell like a should!

26. This is how many other LARPS throughout the world play it – players characters can die, and though it is very unlikely that anyone will, everyone fights and plays as if they 'know' their character can die.

I play NERO, Not those other games. Not looking to play those other games. And you should not be looking to make your players want to play those games.

27. I personally played in a LARP game very similar to what we are proposing while in Germany at Mythodea LARP with two of my staff members. We didn't worry any less about our character dieing because we knew that npc's never administer killing blows and really no one ever dies while we were 'in game' – we played our characters hearts out right alongside all the other 4,000 attendees and did everything we could to keep us and our friends from dieing when we engaged in combat.

So no fear of death, Sounds boring. I like fear. This is lame and actually worse then the draft.
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CodyS
Sat Jan 26 2013, 08:08PM
Registered Member #1046
Joined: Fri Mar 30 2012, 03:14AM
Posts: 30
This still doesn't tell us what happens with your Death total; does it reset to 0, or stay where it was when you drew the black bead?
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JosephColucy
Sat Jan 26 2013, 08:13PM
Registered Member #6443
Joined: Thu Jan 03 2013, 05:56AM
Posts: 27
Isn't this why transforms existed anyways? This is fail.
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CodyS
Sat Jan 26 2013, 08:22PM
Registered Member #1046
Joined: Fri Mar 30 2012, 03:14AM
Posts: 30
As of 1/24/2013, the statistics of the survey results:

28) Removal of permanent death will improve player retention and add to game play

Strongly Disagree 40% (60 of 150)
Disagree 13% (20 of 150)
Meh 9% (14 of 150)
Agree 27% (40 of 150)
Strongly Agree 11% (16 of 150)

29) Accelerated build return under the new permanent death rules will improve player retention and add to game play

Strongly Disagree 43% (64 of 150)
Disagree 15% (22 of 150)
Meh 17% (25 of 150)
Agree 16% (24 of 150)
Strongly Agree 10% (15 of 15)

The full survey results are available to everyone on the Facebook group “Tell It Like It IS”. It is a Facebook page open to anyone and everyone. 187 people had taken the survey at the time this was shown to us (I’m sure it’s gone up now). This survey is available to everyone on the National DB, thanks to the complete volunteer work by the DB Team.

I recognize that not every NERO member has taken this survey. But almost 200 have. It seems like our opinions as customers matter about as much as an Illinois vote from outside Cook county.


I’m still looking for an answer as to why our level progression was slowed with goblin blankets, citing “High player levels”, but then two months later, policies are implemented that will affect APL a lot more than my 2 extra goblin blankets per month.
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JosephColucy
Sat Jan 26 2013, 08:57PM
Registered Member #6443
Joined: Thu Jan 03 2013, 05:56AM
Posts: 27
Do spirit locked items crumble? They should as an added cost to this fail.
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JacobMead
Sat Jan 26 2013, 11:28PM
Registered Member #2146
Joined: Sat Jun 02 2012, 12:48AM
Posts: 6
I want to know if you have died before 2013 if you are able to get your character back. Because that would be unfair to those who have died before that they cant get theirs back.
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Ozen
Sat Jan 26 2013, 11:34PM
Registered Member #6383
Joined: Mon Dec 31 2012, 11:46PM
Posts: 47
So my question is if a player permed lets say a year or 10 years ago can they come back. I think they should be able to. I know players who quit after they permed. this could get them back too.
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AsheBlackfist
Sun Jan 27 2013, 12:01AM
Registered Member #44
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:02AM
Posts: 147
There's a remote chance I'd start PCing again.
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