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PERMANENT DEATH BY PLAYER CHOICE 2013 & 2014
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Sun Jan 27 2013, 01:50AM
Dark Lord of NERO

Registered Member #1
Joined: Mon May 30 2011, 02:21AM
Posts: 170
This is tantamount to the US government deciding to let people choose how much taxes they want to pay one year, and then using the amount of people who chose to pay zero taxes as a reason to cut out taxes.

If you give people the choice, of course they are going to choose what's best for their character. However, that does not mean it is what's best for the game.
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AsheBlackfist
Sun Jan 27 2013, 02:00AM
Registered Member #44
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:02AM
Posts: 147
KenGillis wrote ...

This is tantamount to the US government deciding to let people choose how much taxes they want to pay one year, and then using the amount of people who chose to pay zero taxes as a reason to cut out taxes.

If you give people the choice, of course they are going to choose what's best for their character. However, that does not mean it is what's best for the game.



You might want to rethink your analogy.

It boils down to "if you give people the choice of whether or not they want their character to die, of course they are going to choose not to let them die! But that's not good for the people who didn't die."

Essentially you just admitted that if you experienced a character who permed (and had the choice), you would elect to not have them perm given the option. Like most people would. And yet some people hold on to this view that it's good for the game, or somehow detrimental to them in a game environment. It looks fundamentally flawed and hypocritical to me.
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jvalenti
Sun Jan 27 2013, 02:21AM
Joseph Valenti

Registered Member #68
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:35AM
Posts: 600
The question was posed about allowing people to bring thier character back if they perm'd in previous years, for customer service sake. It's on the list and right now it doesn't seem like it's a yes, but we haven't really created a list of why or why not's so we can make a decision - though we haven't focused on that yet either. we can do this easily enough by writing an advenutre either the local chapter can write it or they can use the basic one that has a group of advenutrers save thier frined who died by gving of themslelves (like they did in the old days of nero mass for alaric malinruin).
Can you all help us with why we should let characters that have perm'd in the past retrun from the graveyards to the world of tyrra' or why not. thoughts? opinions? Have you had a character perm? and would you bring them back from the dead if you could play them again?
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AsheBlackfist
Sun Jan 27 2013, 02:51AM
Registered Member #44
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:02AM
Posts: 147
jvalenti wrote ...

The question was posed about allowing people to bring thier character back if they perm'd in previous years, for customer service sake. It's on the list and right now it doesn't seem like it's a yes, but we haven't really created a list of why or why not's so we can make a decision - though we haven't focused on that yet either. we can do this easily enough by writing an advenutre either the local chapter can write it or they can use the basic one that has a group of advenutrers save thier frined who died by gving of themslelves (like they did in the old days of nero mass for alaric malinruin).
Can you all help us with why we should let characters that have perm'd in the past retrun from the graveyards to the world of tyrra' or why not. thoughts? opinions? Have you had a character perm? and would you bring them back from the dead if you could play them again?


should've waited a couple years to perm, I guess.
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jvalenti
Sun Jan 27 2013, 03:03AM
Joseph Valenti

Registered Member #68
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:35AM
Posts: 600
Will, come on! give me 10 reasons why a player whose character died permanently previously should be permittred to return, even if just for the playtest period of 2013.
1) becasue there death might not have been a 'good one'.
2) becase they would have chosen not to to let thier character die.
3) becase if they want to bring a perm;d character back, odds are we shoudl let them.
4) becasue we've already had some owners cheese adjudications to bring thier owner character or thier friends character back to life, so everyoen should get the chance to return.
5).... give me some help!
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-CRIMSON
Sun Jan 27 2013, 03:06AM
-CRIMSON
Registered Member #18
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 09:49AM
Posts: 207
i dont mind letting a permed character come back. i miss all my old friends.
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CodyS
Sun Jan 27 2013, 03:08AM
Registered Member #1046
Joined: Fri Mar 30 2012, 03:14AM
Posts: 30
Before we move onto another topic, could we address the issue on the original one? What happens to your total number of deaths when you draw a black bead with this new policy?

For that matter, why aren't these policies being released in a more official and proof-read form? Instead, they are being posted as random topics on the national message forum (instead of under the "LARP Rules" section) that many people are STILL having difficulty getting registered to.
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jvalenti
Sun Jan 27 2013, 03:20AM
Joseph Valenti

Registered Member #68
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:35AM
Posts: 600
5) becasue the player wants to play with thier old frineds again.

Cody - your total remains the same. these will be posted to the official announcment form when they are proof-read, yes. right now we are tryign to engage the nero member base becasue they want to particpate, and by having 200 people participate we will always have more ideas and the results will always be the best rule or policy we can make.

Thanks everyone!
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AsheBlackfist
Sun Jan 27 2013, 03:42AM
Registered Member #44
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:02AM
Posts: 147
If characters are allowed to return from permanent death within a specific period of time, it isn't equitable to disallow others whose death falls outside of that specified time.

Long-term players who suffer permanent death are likely to either not return to the game or not return to PCing. I stopped PCing after my main's permanent death because I didn't find playing another character fun. The net result in a loss of long-time players who have contributed not only as PCs, but have likely contributed as volunteers as NPCs or staff.

Losing players to permanent death means losing money. I refuse to pay to play NERO. I don't enjoy PCing after losing my main. I still NPC, staff, and help out here and there with DB stuff. But I don't put a dollar into NERO directly. I don't mean this as a threat to withhold money, but NERO is not providing a service that I'm willing to pay money for without my main.

The concept of permanent death has been morphed into a flexible concept in-game already. At your own previous chapter (Joe V. that is), Avendale, under your plot staff's direction brought an NPC back from permanent death. Characters have been brought back from permanent death due to adjudication, "retired" characters returning, and for plot reasons. It's not like bringing a character back from p death takes away from IG atmosphere or cosmology.

The adjudication process at all levels has been totally subjective from chapter to chapter, right up to national. Some characters have been returned by certain adjudication processes for one reason, and denied adjudication based on the exact same reason.

P Death has been so rare amongst PCs in my 13 years playing that it has only produced drama and discontinuity when it DOES occur. You could go 5+ years without seeing a perm, and seeing someone actually perm has become the aberration.

Most people play with a group of friends or a NERO community. Some of these are based on gathering at events and met through NERO. One person perming out of a group of 15 people, most of whom are doing similar things at events, hardly seems equitable. Because one person blocks a weapon a little slower, or can't dodge a packet quite as well, or was standing in the wrong spot at the wrong time, devolves the occurrence of rezzing and permanent death down to luck. Congratulations, you just lost investments of time, emotion, and money due to luck.

I won't even mention the inequity that can be faced because of OOG discordance, more than it exists. Targeting of players, or playing "harder" against some players than other happens intentionally and unintentionally.

And to debunk the myth that perming adds a sense of fear to the game, I posit the question of where? in what situation has this EVER occurred? It leads to people feeling like they have to travel anywhere in groups of 10. Death hasn't been cool or fearful in NERO since I've played, it's only been a reason to tagalong with others. Fear is created by atmosphere, not by forcing it down people's throats. People are more afraid of permanent death because of the OOG losses than the IG ones.
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JosephColucy
Sun Jan 27 2013, 04:08AM
Registered Member #6443
Joined: Thu Jan 03 2013, 05:56AM
Posts: 27
"And to debunk the myth that perming adds a sense of fear to the game, I posit the question of where? in what situation has this EVER occurred? It leads to people feeling like they have to travel anywhere in groups of 10. Death hasn't been cool or fearful in NERO since I've played, it's only been a reason to tagalong with others. Fear is created by atmosphere, not by forcing it down people's throats. People are more afraid of permanent death because of the OOG losses than the IG ones."

Wow you are so wrong.

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