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PERMANENT DEATH BY PLAYER CHOICE 2013 & 2014
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Marstrathin
Wed Jan 30 2013, 07:20PM
Registered Member #2403
Joined: Wed Jun 20 2012, 04:12AM
Posts: 92
Another Option is Leaving Perm Death exactly as is, but adding a GP Option to return the Dead for perhaps 2000 Points, bringing them back to the same point they were at, and same number of deaths. This would only Remove the Permed status of the Character, their Black stones would remain as they were before perming, but can still be bought off normally to the standard minimum.
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EziekalGrymm
Wed Jan 30 2013, 07:25PM
Registered Member #2746
Joined: Thu Jul 12 2012, 12:12PM
Posts: 81
Sounds ok but I like people staying dead.
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AndrewI
Wed Jan 30 2013, 08:37PM
Owner, NERO New Brunswick
Registered Member #107
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:50AM
Posts: 176
Ctaylor wrote ...

No offense Andrew,(and he is certainly not the only one) but when I read your posts, it come off as me me me. I don't like. It cost me. I want this. While I can appreciate your personal feelings on how the game affects you and your character I honestly believe you are confusing what is good for you and your character with what is good for the game as a whole.


I bring 20+ years of playing to the table, I've seen lots of changes, and I've seen lots of things that should be changed. I don't have a lot of care for my character these days, my main and the replacement permed and I'm too busy running things to get much time to play my current character.

Trust me I know the difference, I'm not just a player ;)

Ctaylor wrote ...

NO ONE wants their characters to die.
However it keeps the game changing and evolving, keeps apl down which in turns affects plot (stating and providing challenges) logistics (coin that goes out) and the players, who now find it more difficult to get into a position of nobility or status, because no one dies.


When's the last time you saw a character resurrect let alone perm? With 40-50 life spells a day in most chapters, it's pretty rare.

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JBatchelor
Wed Jan 30 2013, 09:01PM
Registered Member #7739
Joined: Tue Jan 29 2013, 09:50PM
Posts: 49
I think I saw no less than 6 characters perm over the last 5 years. I did not lose those characters personally but they did perm.
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Ctaylor
Wed Jan 30 2013, 10:49PM
NEXUS
Registered Member #902
Joined: Sat Mar 17 2012, 04:23PM
Posts: 62
Every season we had at least one person permed. Its not as rare as some think, but is rarer than it should be.

Although, I will admit, the number of life spells are ridiculous. If I had my way no 9th level spell would be able to be put in a magic item and I strive to never put them out in-game.

[ Edited Wed Jan 30 2013, 10:50PM ]
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Scottish_hound
Thu Jan 31 2013, 12:04AM
Scottish_hound
Registered Member #429
Joined: Mon Jan 23 2012, 01:48PM
Posts: 8
AndrewI wrote ...

Ctaylor wrote ...

No offense Andrew,(and he is certainly not the only one) but when I read your posts, it come off as me me me. I don't like. It cost me. I want this. While I can appreciate your personal feelings on how the game affects you and your character I honestly believe you are confusing what is good for you and your character with what is good for the game as a whole.


I bring 20+ years of playing to the table, I've seen lots of changes, and I've seen lots of things that should be changed. I don't have a lot of care for my character these days, my main and the replacement permed and I'm too busy running things to get much time to play my current character.

Trust me I know the difference, I'm not just a player ;)

Ctaylor wrote ...

NO ONE wants their characters to die.
However it keeps the game changing and evolving, keeps apl down which in turns affects plot (stating and providing challenges) logistics (coin that goes out) and the players, who now find it more difficult to get into a position of nobility or status, because no one dies.


When's the last time you saw a character resurrect let alone perm? With 40-50 life spells a day in most chapters, it's pretty rare.



i agree here that it is rare. i have never seen a character perm in my chapter. i have been helping to run that chapter for 4 years now. i do see alot of deaths, and alot of buy backs. we take a look at every death a player takes to make sure it was a "good" death. since i personally stat all the monsters as our monster marshal i know that balance is a good thing.

i honestly hate this rule. i do not think that perming should be removed. players will undoubtedly metagame and do whats best for there character and it will not be whats best for the game. with no death characters that hold high ranking titles in game will keep them until the player actually dies or gets to old to stop playing. this gives new players nothing they can feasibly strive for there. it also means that when we balance a wave battle or mod, or anything really it will be a nightmare. on the off change that new players would enjoy playing a game where everyone who has played for a few yeas is so far beyond them that they kill everything and leave nothing for the younger players to do. balancing will cause the monsters to either be to hard for low levels, or far to easy to prove a challenge to the high levels.

character perming is what makes the game a living and breathing thing that changes and keeps it from being stale. having a diverse collection of players at our events i see how character polarization affects the game. and there are times where i personally have had to either send an NPC healer with a group to prevent the low-levels from dying in a field battle just so the higher levels will feel challenged.

IMHO i like the idea of having a set number of deaths and i can get behind that. i have never liked the randomness of perming as it was and a set number of deaths helps with that. as for buying them back an exponential scale would work best. it has been said that a persons next buy back would have cost them a truck in donations... that is the way it should be. players should have time to come to terms with a characters death, and if they don't want to play after that then so be it. they really didn't enjoy the game they only enjoyed themselves. players who truly like the game will come back with another character. as long as it is made apparent that player deaths happen then there is no problem with the game. as a point of reference. look at dystopia. they have characters perm, and regularly. players who like the game come back and they are exploding in players and locations right now. i am not saying to take a lesson from them, just that permanent death isn't what scares away players. as long as a game is fun while you play then they will keep coming back, and on that note taking away perm. death will make the game stale. it will always be the same people and nothing will change politically in any chapter. it is the constant change that keeps thing live and fresh and keeps players happy. if you have been playing for 20+ years, good for you. if your players hasn't died awesome. but they should always be mindful that it could happen.

as it stands if perm. death is done away with. it would cause me to never put money into the game directly, by way of having a PC
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AndrewI
Thu Jan 31 2013, 01:04AM
Owner, NERO New Brunswick
Registered Member #107
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:50AM
Posts: 176
Ctaylor wrote ...

Although, I will admit, the number of life spells are ridiculous. If I had my way no 9th level spell would be able to be put in a magic item and I strive to never put them out in-game.


A debate I would agree with you on. It never made sense to me that spells could be duplicated with magic items but other skill storing got removed - with the removal of permanence, what difference does it make - I'm more of the camp of all in, or all out.
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NEROPhoenix
Thu Jan 31 2013, 05:48AM
NEROPhoenix
Registered Member #954
Joined: Wed Mar 21 2012, 12:09AM
Posts: 65
Marstrathin wrote ...

Another Option is Leaving Perm Death exactly as is, but adding a GP Option to return the Dead for perhaps 2000 Points, bringing them back to the same point they were at, and same number of deaths. This would only Remove the Permed status of the Character, their Black stones would remain as they were before perming, but can still be bought off normally to the standard minimum.




This may be a viable alternative to the current system. I would assume Joe and the rest of the National rules team have gone over a number of the possible ways characters can be brought back and worked to make it one that would be possible for all players not just those with the extra time and money to get Goblins or some other source to bring their character back.

Personally I would like to see a Great roleplay session involved to bring the dead back, not just a good one. For instance a quest complete with bartering with the Recorders of the grave yards for the deceased to return. Yes I know plenty of people will just go "Oh hes repped he has stats and we can roll him" but if the Recorder is properly stated and played this could be interesting.
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Attackgypsy
Thu Jan 31 2013, 03:12PM
Registered Member #79
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:39AM
Posts: 95
NEROPhoenix wrote ...

This may be a viable alternative to the current system. I would assume Joe and the rest of the National rules team have gone over a number of the possible ways characters can be brought back and worked to make it one that would be possible for all players not just those with the extra time and money to get Goblins or some other source to bring their character back.

Personally I would like to see a Great roleplay session involved to bring the dead back, not just a good one. For instance a quest complete with bartering with the Recorders of the grave yards for the deceased to return. Yes I know plenty of people will just go "Oh hes repped he has stats and we can roll him" but if the Recorder is properly stated and played this could be interesting.



I think that is an extremely EXCELLENT idea!
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EziekalGrymm
Thu Jan 31 2013, 06:46PM
Registered Member #2746
Joined: Thu Jul 12 2012, 12:12PM
Posts: 81
Better hope you have friends that are still alive and want you back.
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