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Chapter Owners
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Moderators: Administrator, KatieMueller, AdamTaylor, jvalenti, Clint, NickDenny, ShellyHollon, KnightofEvendarr, jasonmote, JSchneider, fdhogan, DDS, jvalentinero, BrianCook, dcashel
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jasonmote
Wed Jan 02 2013, 06:56PM
NERO International Staff
Registered Member #197
Joined: Mon Aug 29 2011, 02:41PM
Posts: 494
jvalenti wrote ...
we are dealing with a few cheater owners who leaked our confidential docs in thier effort to cause national staff and me 'trouble' so we cannot implement the changes that will improve our organization and game on-time by trying to get nero members nationwide to rally against the changes too.

I think leaking confidential documents sucks. Especially in this case where the document was clearly not ready for prime-time. It was explained to the owners that it was a loose set of thoughts and not really organized and edited. When the doc got leaked, it was not explained to the public.

That said, I want to address what you said here. "changes that will improve our organization" I know that you believe that, which is why I shake my head so often. These are not good changes. I know that you're not going to believe that and that you think I'm just slamming the ideas to slam them, but that's not the case. This is universally objected to by the playerbase at large and the chapter "owners" as not a good direction for the game. I urge you to reconsider these ideas. Perhaps a frank discussion about this with the "owners" is in order?
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BerenOlean
Wed Jan 02 2013, 07:44PM
BerenOlean
Registered Member #33
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 09:58AM
Posts: 222
I only have owner input from those who post here and limited discussion with the owners of PRO. While there are items that we can deal with in the package, I agree with Jason that the public outcry is very very negative. There are players that like certain aspects of the document that some players like, however the overall feel of the document itself is not clear. For example a few players like the remov al of permanent death. However, there is great debate over the percentages, the quick build gain, and the issues of nobility and prestige. Overall there is a feeling that these changes herald the end of NERO. As we had posted, we hoped that players would voice their own thoughts here on the national forum. Instead many people see this as a final straw. It is our hope that these items are shelved and looked at separately for validity. Some of these ideas and changes, with proper tweaking and time could be useable. I believe the most difficult item to deal with is the lack of a conversation regarding the items. People love this game, but when that game intrinsic changes people decide if it is worth it or if it's time to walk away. Myself and ARGOs other owners are more than willing to talk about these items in any way that our thoughts can be heard.
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jvalenti
Wed Jan 02 2013, 08:07PM
Joseph Valenti

Registered Member #68
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:35AM
Posts: 600
Frank discussion sounds fine - this is what is occurring here right?
I'm perfectly fine with the the feedback being given by the player base and the chapter owners here as well as the phone calls.
I'm really not all that worried about this period as players are already realizing that the doc was leaked and most players are not happy about it but they are going to wait to see what the next version looks like.
Most people making comments are doing so as if one thing or another were 'actual', when in fat the feedback is based upon x reason or y reason being 'fact' - and I'm adding explanations to each so that the updated doc will offer explanations and be better understood by the general member base.
I have updated the doc with explanations and I think, optimistically of course, that the explanations will help everyone understand but i'm more than happy with going over these one at a time with the owners.
So, let's fire it up! I'm ready with my discussion points and reasons why we need to make each fo the changes..
What's first? Cloak and Bane? Vengenance? MES Changes?
Joseph Valenti
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BerenOlean
Wed Jan 02 2013, 08:34PM
BerenOlean
Registered Member #33
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 09:58AM
Posts: 222
Would you like separate forums for each topic to keep things cleaner? If so, I will start ones that we feel are major concerns.

[ Edited Wed Jan 02 2013, 08:48PM ]
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Ctaylor
Wed Jan 02 2013, 11:43PM
NEXUS
Registered Member #902
Joined: Sat Mar 17 2012, 04:23PM
Posts: 62
BerenOlean wrote ...

Would you like separate forums for each topic to keep things cleaner? If so, I will start ones that we feel are major concerns.


I think that would be helpful as it would allow each topic to be discussed in a separate thread for clarity.
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BerenOlean
Thu Jan 03 2013, 03:50AM
BerenOlean
Registered Member #33
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 09:58AM
Posts: 222
There are some. Hopefully people will comment on the ones I have started. I will work on more tomorrow. Its hard running a business, a nero chapter, and being sick. Hopefully these points will matter and the people who want to keep playing this game rather than find another will step up and start saying things themselves.
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jvalenti
Thu Jan 03 2013, 08:05AM
Joseph Valenti

Registered Member #68
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:35AM
Posts: 600
However anyone wants to discuss the topics is fine with me.

We have the same frank discussion going on in the chapter owners forums, and the chapter owners have said what they want regarding the topics. I will take into account the discussion points made when making final decisions on the different topics.

The same topic is in the general public forums ,and members can have their say – and be frank about it.

Separate threads are fine too, it doesn't matter how we present the info – the way I did it or the in seperate threads.

These items were all considered with great thought. Hours upon hours were spent polling people, collecting data, looking at the past experiences we've had, and the results of some things, and the draft for these changes was created in writing to talk about them with the chapter owners.

It was the chapter owners themselves who are damaging their own business through the leaking of the document in its form to the public and the subsequent time spent handling it instead of implementing the changes also falls onto the owners.

Of course, while we converse about these changes there will be no time for other things like playtest evaluation or evaluation of items submitted by owners or players.

How chapter owners decide to converse with national about the changes is up to them, not me. Chapter owners have a forum where they can express themselves to me and national, but if they choose to go to the public for whatever reason then that's fine with me too. I will fully participate in the public discussion and inform the players of what's going on within the organization.

I've learned from the past that chapter owners do not want the member base to know about the actions they take, or do not take, but I am willing to share it all for sure.

Had the document not been leaked by someone then the owners would have provided their feedback and frank discussion would have ensued with mutual understandings as to 'why' we need these changes. Instead, well, we all know what happened.

Had I not chosen to share the doc with the owners, it would not have been leaked. Perhaps I will learn from my mistakes and in the future this will not happen again.

But instead, someone wanted to harm Nero, and harm the very game that everyone loves to play, that I love too don't forget, by leaking out either version 3 or version 4 of the doc to the public, and I put version 6 out i think. I am now on version 8.

The change document was compiled by me from multiple documents, my project notes, and reports I receive from staff members. Months have been spent on most of these topics, talking about them with owners who call me and e-mail me – those who want to take part in the growth of NERO as an organization and participate with me in brainstorming and plan building.

As I said before, I am confident that nero members will come to understand the changes and embrace them, especially when they find out the reasons why everything is being implemented.

Since the owners are taking their discussion points to the public I am guessing its OK to take my discussion points to the public too. I agree that its about time that the nero members know what the national office has been dealing with for 15 years.

Joseph Valenti
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bgardner
Thu Jan 03 2013, 01:21PM
Registered Member #11
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 09:45AM
Posts: 33
Thanks for being willing to respond to questions and clarify things, Joe!

I believe several threads have been started talking about the various issues in the proposed rules changes. When you have an opportunity, could you head over there and respond to some of the concerns folks have?

Portal Magic

Permanent Death

Goblin Stamp Purchases

Base 10 Celestial

Base 5 Monster Damage

Vengence change
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jvalenti
Thu Jan 03 2013, 03:42PM
Joseph Valenti

Registered Member #68
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:35AM
Posts: 600
Sure will. I just figured I would let people get thier say in before I make my posts.
I have spent hundreds of hours on these topics already, and am working on getting good explanations regarding them so that a better understanding is received by the membership.
I'll mostly go off the top of my head for examples of why we need to make the changes, but I am sure the member base will love to hear the why's behind the changes since it mostly involves chapter owners and plot teams and players actions.

Joseph Valenti
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warowner
Sat Jan 05 2013, 07:59PM
Registered Member #6328
Joined: Sat Dec 29 2012, 05:38PM
Posts: 1
Mike Ennis
NERO Ohio Owner
NERO West Virginia Owner
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