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Discuss Goblin points!
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Moderators: KenGillis, DanComstock, KatieMueller, AdamTaylor, jvalenti, Clint, noahmason, ShellyHollon, KnightofEvendarr, jasonmote, JSchneider, MMeconi_NLV, fdhogan, jvalentinero
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Frog
Mon Feb 27 2012, 11:38PM
frog
Registered Member #17
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 03:49AM
Posts: 91
My point on chapter specific goblin is more of a. no matter where I may travel in this NAT game I want to use what I earn wherever I go. Not a I think it amounts should all be in Nat hands.

My biggest issue it "National Policies" is that they aren't. It doesn't matter if it is the Membership policy, The Nat DB policy, or the Nat Goblin Policy. Not everybody actually follows them. I am willing follow almost any policy as long as EVERYBODY follows that policy.
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HMTaylor
Tue Feb 28 2012, 06:49PM
HMTaylor
Registered Member #22
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 03:51AM
Posts: 209
IMO, goblin points/ current reward system are escalating the level of the game way too fast. I would like to see a new system that slowed down the level progression for those people who earn goblin, while not punishing the occasional volunteers. If we introduced a new point system (like Dragon points) I'd like to also see a system that gradually phased out goblin. Frog I think you are not alone in the freak-out factor of a sudden cut-off or reset of goblin points.

One thing I'd like to see a new policy avoid is setting up a have vs have-nots between players and staff. A lot of people feel that staff should be greatly rewarded, and I agree that there should be a decent reward. But IMO that same reward should be available to a player who does extra work/ tons of help for the game.

I loved it when goblin pts. became National. For a local character who never traveled, it was never an issue. But for characters who travel often, and like to help out wherever they go, national goblin was definitely an improvement. The only downside to goblin becoming national (and I think this would have existed beforehand anyway) is that some chapters used goblin as a form of competition- i.e. giving out more than another chapter for the same amount of work/ donations. Any reward system we use should have a fixed rate, with specific allowances for "hot items" that a chapter is in need of.

[ Edited Tue Feb 28 2012, 06:49PM ]
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jvalenti
Sun Mar 11 2012, 03:34PM
Joseph Valenti

Registered Member #68
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 04:35AM
Posts: 597
As for following policy - most nero chapters do.
It is the chapters who compete with thier neighbors who do not adhere ot the goblin point policy.
and beleive me, I hear the statements directly to my face and I hear the statements from other chapters owners...

to my face when I ran a chapter in 2005. I donated 10 weapons to nero mass becasue they offer 2 times the points, so you do not get the weapons i made originally for your chapter, and was going to bring to your game, since the goblin points awarded are better at nero mass.

From other owners and my national staff...
--- The ohio chapters are giving magic items out to thier staff, so I am going to also, and since my chapter runs smaller games, you need to change the policy so it comes out of another 'category', like Staff Magic Items or Goblin Points.
--- the ohio chapters are giving out magic items ot thier staff, so you need to change the goblin system so that you can give magic items out to national staff.

additionally,
I have always been against goblin point buying magic items, and against giving staff magic items for staffing. I made the rare chapters that were doing it take the treasure form thier events, and now it has skyrocketed into an unauthroized 'dragon point award system' that everyone wants to use.
-- Many chapters give goblin points out in high quanitites because they are 'air' and the policy limits the impact on local chapters. Hence why some people have gazillions of them.
-- Bying Magic Items and FMC/FMS's removes the 'air' feel from goblin points, and now we will have some impact on the chapters when 3,000 5-effect 2-year items hit thier games.
-- If the highest earners of goblin are the only ones to buy Magic Items, we are right back tgo where were in 1998 when I bought NERO - the game was run by 'clique' groups of people and only the clique people will earn enough goblin points to buy a magic item.
It has to be everyone buys one or no one buys one, and since some chapters are already giving out magic items for goblin points, it looks like we need to let everyone do it, and make it cheap enough so that everyone can buy one.
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jhayes21
Mon Mar 12 2012, 01:25PM
Janelle Hayes, Owner - PRO
Registered Member #115
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 04:53AM
Posts: 141
This is my personal 2 cents on the GS policy.

1.) GS should never expire or have a limit. I think it would deter people from donating toward the end of the year. Why make a large donation in November or December if they will expire in January and you won't have a chance to spend them. I strongly feel that anything that limits the amount of GS you can earn/spend will directly effect the quality/quantity of the donations themselves.

2a.) I think that Goblin Stamps should be universal. HOWEVER, each chapter needs to use the SAME nationally provided GS policy. In my area, players pick and choose what chapter to donate certain items at based on the number of GS that chapter is offering. It is completely unfair for my chapter to suffer because Chapter X gives out their own GS amount and mine used the national policy. Or players who get crazy amount if GS at other chapters then want to spend them here could take away from other players in my game.

2b.) In order for the above to work, the GS amounts need to be reviewed. The amount you get for certain items doesn't make sense anymore. Prices of materials has increased and time spent is very important. The GS amounts need to reflect better the time and money that goes into these items.

3.) If GS were to be given out locally, it is right to assume that items purchased with these GS would be LCO? I think that would really piss people off, but if you don't do it that way, then you still have the problem of 2a above.

4.) I have but one final question, if you want to go off and do your own thing, then why be part of Nero? National exists for a reason. So players can expect to get the same standard of game wherever they go. I don't play EQ at home and expect to be better rewarded if I log on at work.

Item #4 is more food for thought. I'm not really trying to open that can of worms. Just my personal opinion. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. Again, just my two cents.

Janelle

[ Edited Mon Mar 12 2012, 01:26PM ]
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jasonmote
Mon Mar 12 2012, 02:18PM
Director of Policies, Procedures, & Updates - NERO International

Registered Member #197
Joined: Mon Aug 29 2011, 08:41AM
Posts: 508
jhayes21 wrote ...
3.) If GS were to be given out locally, it is right to assume that items purchased with these GS would be LCO? I think that would really piss people off, but if you don't do it that way, then you still have the problem of 2a above.

#3 - There is no talk that Magic Items bought with Goblin will be LCO. As far as I know, they are slated to be Unrestricted.
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spicemwe
Wed Mar 14 2012, 02:16PM
Registered Member #177
Joined: Fri Aug 19 2011, 01:04PM
Posts: 61
Thanks for opening this up for discussion!

Here are my thoughts on goblin points. :)

1.) No cap and no expiration: I say this primarily because I believe it would discourage the purpose of goblin points - donations (of time, efforts, props, etc).

2.) No cash for gobs: I may be flying solo on this, but I've never been a fan of giving hard cold cash for goblin. I'm also not sure if it's a common practice, but I figured I would throw that out there.

3.) Things that could be purchased: Here is a list of some things that I think should be purchased with goblin and each with specific limits. I'm not great with figuring out fair numbers on the fly, but I trust that the right people could arrange that. I feel most of the values out there now are fairly reasonable.
  • Production
  • Blankets
  • Coin
  • Max out
  • Components

4.) Things that should not be purchased: Some of the things I believe would be/are not helpful to the game when purchasable with goblin points. Again, I may not have the popular opinion here.
  • Death buy backs
  • Magic items
  • Weekend effects
  • Transforms

5.) National Goblin System: This one can be a little tricky, but I believe a National system is the way to go. We don't want to discourage players from being able to donate to chapters other than their home chapter. I believe it's also important to include a disclaimer that a chapter does not have to accept goblin point requests for production, coin, etc.

a.) Goblin competition: HOT items can lead to chapter/chapter competitions for donations, but I'm not sure it's being abused (I could be completely nieve here.) If it is as big of a problem as stated, maybe a trial run of removing the HOT item option and seeing if chapters are still recieving the donations they need. We could also potentially look at ways to give local chapters more money so that they don't have to rely on donations as much either. Just sayin'! ;)

6.) Ways to get goblin: Just a few additional ways I believe members could potentially recieve goblin!
  • a.) PELS: Player Event Letters. If you haven't heard of them yet, please listen up! PELS are the best things to happen to larps since ultra lights! Feedback is the best way to keep NERO around and players happy.

  • b.)National Feedback Letters: Want to form a community and to get feedback from players? Why not offer incentive?? It's one great way to get these forums rolling again and make our game better. Instead of hearing from a few loud mouths (myself included) you have a better opportunity to hear from the masses (and make them happy...wink wink).


That's all that I have for now. Thanks for reading if you made it through my fifty cents. :)
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Frog
Wed Mar 14 2012, 04:07PM
frog
Registered Member #17
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 03:49AM
Posts: 91
<<<Likes Valerie's post and agrees with almost all of it.(esp the death buy backs)
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Scribe
Tue Mar 20 2012, 12:35PM
Registered Member #904
Joined: Sat Mar 17 2012, 11:52AM
Posts: 5
Heya Frog and Valerie, I am a bit of a newb to nero but I have played in other types of larps.

I agree with nearly everything you have to say except the death buy back. I think that they should just be very expensive.
In addition I think that goblin should also be given out on a dollar for dollar bases on some items. For instance goblin given for foam latex weapon should be give on the S.R.P. in American dollars for that item.

I could also see a hot sheet that each chapter has that they can give double goblin for. Ten items which must be submitted to and approved by national and maybe a webpage on national that lists all hot donation items for call chapters. So that every Nero member has the chance to donate to them and earn those points.
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Fiddle
Tue Mar 20 2012, 03:05PM
Fiddle
Registered Member #16
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 03:48AM
Posts: 6
<rant>
Not that it's at all necessary, but because I feel like speaking up...

Having been on Nero Mass staff in several different capacities (though I'm not currently), and having handled NPC Camp donations, including sending out the donation request list before every event, weapon donations and packets were always considered (and publicized as) hot list items because (IMO) the National list didn't valuate them appropriately. 30 goblin for a long sword? OK, ultra-light is more reasonable @ 50 goblin each, but generally someone can sell a good ultra-light long sword for at least $40, and I think EVERYONE would rather have $40 than 50 goblin. Listed as a hot-list item, increasing the value to 75 for a long sword was definitely more reasonable. 40 goblin for an ultra-light shield? Maybe a buckler... And they offer 75 goblin for a pair of leather bracers, and only 200 for a chainmaile shirt?
</rant>

Valerie's so articulate! No cap or expiration, that only discourages people from contributing to the game (and what a logistic nightmare!). Get rid of death buy-back (please!). I'm ok with buying goblin with cash, as the money can go directly towards the improvement of the game (as an owner, I'd rather have cash to buy what I want for the game!), and it's not dissimilar to other donations.

Ah, PELs! Yes, there should be some reward for players that submit PELs, as many people consider it "homework", even though it can directly benefit their character (communicating to the staff the pro's and con's). And there's absolutely no encouragement for NPCs to submit a PEL as is, and they have an important voice to the game (as they are the lifeblood!).

I'd love to see a realistic monitoring system for donation/goblin credit, but the current structure we have, I don't see that happening. If a chapter's going to give excess goblin for items, what's going to stop them from reporting phantom additional items instead (to make up for the difference in a monitored system)? Are they going to require a picture of the donated items? I saw a post somewhere's not too long ago listing the players with the highest goblin values in the national system (150,000+), and that's suspect. If there were some type of oversight, that would likely help, but who knows.

- Mark
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KiaAmat
Tue Mar 20 2012, 06:33PM
Kiaamat
Registered Member #73
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 04:37AM
Posts: 12
My argument against set goblin rates is the same reason a Quarter Pounder at McDonalds doesn't cost the same in MA as it does in KS: Market pricing.

Materials cost more in MA than KS. Certain supplies are easier to get in MA than KS. There are more players to share the burden of props needed in one chapter than in another. There may be five local chapters sharing NPC weapons in one region, so they're not "valuable" but the perishables such as glow sticks are used up at a crazy rate and therefore hard to come by.

All these kinds of things and more impact market rate and "price" of items donated. As a result, a given donor base will want more or less value (goblin stamps) for their market goods (donated gear).

And on a side note, can we please put an auto filter on any post that equates goblin to cash value? (Yes, I joke, but barely.) It will bring down the hellfire and damnation of agencies of governance no NERO owner wants to hear from if that equation returns!

Been there, done that, bought the mofo t-shirt.
-Rachel
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