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Healing arts/Revive/Regeneration/Undead
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-CRIMSON
Tue Feb 28 2012, 05:47PM
-CRIMSON
Registered Member #18
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 09:49AM
Posts: 207
so heres the deal


this has always bothered me.




1. Healing arts = you can ask the question "are you regenerating" but everyone seems to use it as a "are you going to revive in 5 minutes sorta question. i was under the impression that regeneration was a conscious ability that resembled readjusting armor to regain all your HP back. so why would a healer want to go up to a living werewolf thats kneeling down and ask if theyre readjusting their body/regenerating. shouldnt the phrase been changed to "are you reviving?"

2. some undead/no metabolsim things have revives.

im assuming that seeing as how a creature with no metabolism usually has no bleed out count, that they immediately go into revive status and lay there without crumbling until 5 minutes goes by. or do they spend 60 seconds laying there "bleeding out" waiting for a chaos spell or whatever to heal them. then go into "revive count" for 5 minutes and cant be healed at all until they revive. notably vampires.
ive seen this done different ways in different chapters.

3. non corporeal creatures with revives= since they generally vanish at zero. does that mean that they instantly revive? hard to picture a ghost laying around. waiting to revive. same with undead that crumble at zero. or elementals that may have revives.




for the most part, ive seen all of these conditions played many different ways. generally to generate less confusion at the time. or to be player friendly with transforms and such.

any input ?

























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-CRIMSON
Tue Feb 28 2012, 05:59PM
-CRIMSON
Registered Member #18
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 09:49AM
Posts: 207
the way i see it happening.



no matter what the creature.



60 seconds = bleed out count - can be healed.

5 minutes = lay there reviving - cant be healed.

healing arts should be "are you reviving"


ghosts/banshees non corps with revives = should have a partial body that becomes touchable once they die. like a bone or an article of clothing.

elementals - shouldnt have revives.
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spicemwe
Tue Feb 28 2012, 06:45PM
Registered Member #177
Joined: Fri Aug 19 2011, 07:04PM
Posts: 59
Strange spacing has always bothered me. :P

I'm not a marshal or anything, but this is my take on your points.

Regeneration vs. Revive: These are two different "monster" abilities. One is to represent the gaining back of health and the other is to represent the ability to survive a "semi death" state. In the rulebook (pg. 93 to be specific), Regeneration states that it can happen at zero body (or unconcious). So to answer your question, no I don't believe the healing arts question should be changed.

Honestly I am perfectly leaving these things up to plot discretion. To me, it's alright if some creatures revive, regenerate,or dissipates differently.

My question is when using Healing Arts, would asking a creature that is reviving "How much time until you become conscious?" a valid question?

[ Edited Tue Feb 28 2012, 06:46PM ]
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jasonmote
Tue Feb 28 2012, 06:46PM
NERO International Staff
Registered Member #197
Joined: Mon Aug 29 2011, 02:41PM
Posts: 494
(Notes for EDIT: The lack of STRIKETHROUGH feature in BBS is annoying :P)

Here are my thoughts and how I would play these situations (this is not a national official answer):

Undead are not often affected by Healing Arts (mostly because they crumble).
In the case of non-crumbled undead: Character: "Healing Arts are you regenerating?" Response: "Yes."
This is unless the Monster Card specifically says IMMUNE TO HEALING ARTS.

With the Regeneration spell
Living Targets (with a metabolism): Character: "Healing Arts are you regenerating?" Response: "Yes." *then in-game* "Do I look dead? Stop touching me."

With Monster Ability Regenerate
Living Targets (with a metabolism): Character: "Healing Arts are you regenerating?" Response: "Yes."

Any effect can be explained with any creature type. In a world of mystery and magic, players should never be looking for rational answers.

Revive is a monster ability. They monster is in a simulated death-like state. For undead, they are not crumbled, therefore healable, and after the allotted time for the Revive, they stand up and get back to work. Again, most likely they are IMMUNE TO HEALING ARTS, even though in-game you should be able to see the visible effect of the regeneration (which is not a valid in-game visible effect in the rulebook).

With Monster Ability Regenerate
Living Targets (with a metabolism): Character: "Healing Arts are you regenerating?" Response: "Yes." (or "no effect" depending on card)

Elementals can absolutely have Revive or Regeneration. This can be explained any way you like but they can be healed by their own element in most cases, so why not Revive or Regenerate? I see no why reason not.

Elemental with Monster Ability Regenerate
Living Targets (with a metabolism): Character: "Healing Arts are you regenerating?" Response: "No effect." (Alien Metabolism)

Ghosts/Non-Corporeal creatures - You could have the NPC put on a white headband and stand there for 60 seconds or whatever, then "appear" from nowhere and get back to work.

Healing Arts
(erroneous section removed because of correction in 9th ed)

Out-of-game we have to trust that the character that the player is actually down and dying or bleeding or dead IG.

It also bothers me when players play possum. IG I know when people are dying because there are large pools of blood leaking from them. OOG I need to ask or assume they are because there are no good OOG clues.

[ Edited Tue Feb 28 2012, 07:59PM ]
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-CRIMSON
Tue Feb 28 2012, 06:48PM
-CRIMSON
Registered Member #18
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 09:49AM
Posts: 207
if they changed the wording in 9th edition, then that explains everything.


i dont think regen had the "can be used unconsiously" condition back in 8th.

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jasonmote
Tue Feb 28 2012, 06:53PM
NERO International Staff
Registered Member #197
Joined: Mon Aug 29 2011, 02:41PM
Posts: 494
spicemwe wrote ...
My question is when using Healing Arts, would asking a creature that is reviving "How much time until you become conscious?" a valid question?

I personally would not allow it.

Ideally, Revive and Regeneration should be Visible Effects.

Example Situation:
Undead NPC drops but does not crumble. Then silently begins Revive 60-second count.
Player: "Healing Arts: Are You Dead?"
Undead NPC: "No Effect"
Player (standing up): Ron, visible effects?
Ron, the Undead NPC: Visibly Regenerating.
Player (yelling): "This thing is regenerating guys! A little help!"
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-CRIMSON
Tue Feb 28 2012, 06:58PM
-CRIMSON
Registered Member #18
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 09:49AM
Posts: 207
i still dont understand why an unconsious regeneration wouldnt be called a revive. just more confusing
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spicemwe
Tue Feb 28 2012, 07:11PM
Registered Member #177
Joined: Fri Aug 19 2011, 07:04PM
Posts: 59
"Revive is a monster ability. They monster is in a simulated death-like state. For undead, they are not crumbled, therefore healable, and after the allotted time for the Revive, they stand up and get back to work. Again, Healing Arts is NO EFFECT, even though in-game you should be able to see the visible effect of the regeneration."

Just to be clear, regeneration is not actually a visible effect.

In the rulebook it says that creatures with no metabolism can be immune to first aid, but it doesn't mention healing arts.

"It also bothers me when players play possum. IG I know when people are dying because there are large pools of blood leaking from them."

I have to disagree with you here. Possum I am okay with as long as players don't do it on a knee. I'm less okay with NPC's playing possum.
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spicemwe
Tue Feb 28 2012, 07:17PM
Registered Member #177
Joined: Fri Aug 19 2011, 07:04PM
Posts: 59
"Ideally, Revive and Regeneration should be Visible Effects."

The problem, however, is that regeneration is not on the list of visible effects.

Visible Effects (pg. 48)
Berserk, Bind, Confine, Disease, Feeblemind, Hallucinoid, Imprison,
Nausea, Paralyze, Pin, Silence, Sleep, Taint Blood, Vertigo, and Web...

Anyone who has seen a horror flick knows that the supernatural badguy can revive or rengerate. Of course no one can tell that just by looking at them. :) Bad example I know, but I think it illustrates my point.
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-CRIMSON
Tue Feb 28 2012, 07:18PM
-CRIMSON
Registered Member #18
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 09:49AM
Posts: 207
yeah , knee possum is pretty bunk.



heres my pet peeve.




kill a werewolf.


see someone healing arts it.


are you regenrating?

yes.


no hes not hes reviving. wtf.





dunno why 9th edition made it to where regeration can be used at zero body.


it makes more sense for a werewolf to revive after 5 mins.


unless everyone wanted those 60 second pop up werewolves we used to see alot back when regeneration was only a refit armor like ability. and revive was what happened 5 minutes after you death them.


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