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Vengeance vs. Displacement?
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Martin
Fri Mar 29 2013, 01:27AM
Lord Martin William Redawn
Registered Member #1259
Joined: Fri Apr 13 2012, 11:45PM
Posts: 79
In that case, can we please get an official clarification and have it posted on the appropriate board, asap?
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Administrator
Fri Mar 29 2013, 05:40AM
Dark Lord of NERO

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Joined: Mon May 30 2011, 02:21AM
Posts: 170
Sorry, didn't mean to come off as harsh as it sounds. Just wanted to make sure Trey wasn't mislead that a national staffer voicing their opinion was the same as an official clarification.
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Martin
Fri Mar 29 2013, 12:49PM
Lord Martin William Redawn
Registered Member #1259
Joined: Fri Apr 13 2012, 11:45PM
Posts: 79
No worries. I didn't take it as being "harsh." But there are few things that get my goat more than an unclear rule. And since there is a disagreement about this, and it has the potential of affecting my character (both as someone who uses Vengeance, and who regularly wears a displacement), I would appreciate a clarification.
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EziekalGrymm
Sat Mar 30 2013, 02:22AM
Registered Member #2746
Joined: Thu Jul 12 2012, 12:12PM
Posts: 81
The issue I there is no reason for an official clarification the rule are cut and dry and who ever thinks it should work is stupid to say the least.
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Martin
Mon Apr 01 2013, 12:22PM
Lord Martin William Redawn
Registered Member #1259
Joined: Fri Apr 13 2012, 11:45PM
Posts: 79
The reason for a clarification is that there are players who disagree with how Vengeance and Displacement actually work.

Should it really take an Act of Congress to get what should be a simple clarification?

Is there anyone actually on the National Rules Committee who is checking these forums?
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AndrewI
Mon Apr 01 2013, 12:23PM
Owner, NERO New Brunswick
Registered Member #107
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:50AM
Posts: 176
As an avid daily user of Displacement it is pretty cut and dry as mentioned:

#1 > Displacement only defends you upon effects that strike you (delivered by weapon or packet attack, something has to "hit" you): "...a shield against the first effect that hits them..." (snip) "When struck by an appropriate attack the defense is automatically triggered."
pg. 73, 9th edition Rulebook, ver4

#2> Vengeance cannot be stopped in any way: "This damage occurs after the killing blow and is not avoidable in any manner."
pg. 54, 9th edition Formal Magic
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Administrator
Mon Apr 01 2013, 01:30PM
Dark Lord of NERO

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Joined: Mon May 30 2011, 02:21AM
Posts: 170
The way national clarifications work is that they are only issued if there is vagueness in the rules. They don't get issued whenever a random player decides to act in defiance of the rules.

I understand the desire to want to have some post on the national forums to point at to show this person that they're wrong. However, as posted here, it's pretty clear in the rulebook, and you can point at it there. If they refuse to see the light, then they are cheaters.

Most of the clarifications of these types ("how do I read this rule?") are handled at the chapter level, whereas actual vagueness in the rules are handled at national. Don't shoot the messenger, as I'm not the one who came up with this way of issuing clarifications.

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Martin
Mon Apr 01 2013, 03:51PM
Lord Martin William Redawn
Registered Member #1259
Joined: Fri Apr 13 2012, 11:45PM
Posts: 79
I really don't understand the difficulty, here. I mean, you've seen the thread that started all of this. I don't see how it costs anything for someone with the appropriate level of authority to clarify a question of this sort. I can't even see how it could be considered a burden, or why we wouldn't WANT to offer official clarifications whenever there is a disagreement among players regarding a particular rule, especially in cases where PvP might very well be involved. It would only take a fraction of the effort that has gone into people in this thread explaining WHY they won't issue an official clarification than it would to just have answered the question, officially, when it was asked.
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JBatchelor
Mon Apr 01 2013, 04:04PM
Registered Member #7739
Joined: Tue Jan 29 2013, 09:50PM
Posts: 49
Look martin the rulebook is clear on it the vengence displacer is cheating and should be red carded at least. there is no vagueness to the rules that would allow anything to work against vengence.

Why should national have to reprint the entire ruleset on the forum because somebody is a cheater?
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Martin
Mon Apr 01 2013, 04:44PM
Lord Martin William Redawn
Registered Member #1259
Joined: Fri Apr 13 2012, 11:45PM
Posts: 79
JBatchelor wrote ...

Look martin the rulebook is clear on it the vengence displacer is cheating and should be red carded at least. there is no vagueness to the rules that would allow anything to work against vengence.


There is a long and quite spirited discussion in the local NERO Atlanta that would suggest that the correct interaction between Vengeance and Displacement is not as clear as some would like to think.

http://neroatlanta.net/forums/index.php?topic=13082.0

There are multiple players from multiple chapters who are interpreting the rules in a way that they suggest allows a Displacement to overcome the retributive strike of the Vengeance ritual.

wrote ...
Why should national have to reprint the entire ruleset on the forum because somebody is a cheater?


A cheater would not post a question to the national (or their local) forums asking for a rules clarification. And call me crazy, but answering questions about the rules from players is (or at least, it used to be) part of the job-description for being on ANY rules committee.

Again, I am of the opinion that these players are incorrect. But because they appear to be defending their position in good faith, it seems quite reasonable to me to ask for an official clarification (and despite the overwhelmingly asinine attitudes of certain people who regularly post on the national forums, which I would suggest only serve to drive players away from the game).

[ Edited Mon Apr 01 2013, 04:45PM ]
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