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Magic <Effect>
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DougOwens
Thu Jun 20 2013, 02:51PM
Registered Member #1033
Joined: Thu Mar 29 2012, 12:28AM
Posts: 10
Question for the Rules people.

My question is specifically on Magic Berserk, but can fall for any magic delivered poison.

I know Berserk is a poison and can be resisted by Resist Poison or Poison Shield.

What if I'm hit with Magic Berserk or other form of poison ( Vertigo, hallucinate, etc,) Can I call the same defenses as well as Shield Magic now? I would personally think that once it is magic that it would lose any poison status, but I would like an official ruling on it. Are Poison Shield and Racial Resists now null and void?

This has been a point of contention for some time now amongst the groups I play with, and I really hope i can put the issue to rest.

Thanks

Doug
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jasonmote
Thu Jun 20 2013, 03:13PM
NERO International Staff
Registered Member #197
Joined: Mon Aug 29 2011, 02:41PM
Posts: 494
The delivery of the attack is what determines the defense. Once you are affected, the delivery no longer matters and the effect is removed by anything that gets rid of the effect.

For Example, there Charm Gas are blocked by Poison Shield, but Charm spells are not, they are blocked by a Shield Magic / Reflect Magic.

The "problem" with Berserk as an attack is that it has not been officially deliverable as a spell until recently. Still, it follows the same rules as all other attacks.

[ Edited Thu Jun 20 2013, 03:13PM ]
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DavidFrahm
Thu Jun 20 2013, 03:23PM
Registered Member #113
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:52AM
Posts: 20
One of the beautiful, but more silent changes to 9E was that Delivery Method and Effect are now two separate things. The game is built up around the separate effects, and the ways in which a player can access them is set in stone. However, regarding monsters and monstrous abilities, the doors were silently left wide open. I do believe this was an intentional (and good!) shift.

While it might not make the most sense, this allows for things like a creature to deliver a Magic Berserk (considered a magical effect, and stopped by Shield/Reflect Magic), a Physical-strike Death (think of it as lopping someone's head off, stopped by Magic Armor and Parry and Resist Physical), or even something like a Poison Obliterate (first creature I see doing this will cause me to cry, stopped by Poison Shield/Resist Poison). Even what are normally considered "Formal Magic Effects" are just that: effects, with a common delivery type of ritual. The Int'l clarification that Destroy Magic (aka DFM) is now <Delivery Method> Destroy <School> Magic <target> is a great example of this, just like how the rulebook clarifies that a Magic or Arcane Obliterate is valid. More creatures should just use the Poison delivery method, IMO.

So, for the TL;DR: Yes, Shield Magic would be a valid defense. Resist Poison and Poison Shield are still super awesome against Poison delivered attacks and gasses.
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DougOwens
Sat Jun 22 2013, 12:11AM
Registered Member #1033
Joined: Thu Mar 29 2012, 12:28AM
Posts: 10
Thanks for the response guys
David Frahm. I agree with you 100%. ( BTW I dont think Poison ( any formal ) is a valid call, and if I heard someone call Poison Oblit, id probably junk shot them, and walk off the mod.
However, Once Magic is the delivery method then the Poison resists and shields are null and void ( as they are no longer a poison.
However, I have heard it said in the past ( since 9th ed came out ) that magic ( any poison) is still a poison, no matter how it is delivered. I have argued that poison shield and resist poison will not work on anything magic delivered, only to have it shot down and told that i was wrong. So to get a Be All End All to the argument ( [plus it was been brought up again on the Chicago Boards) I posted here
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JBatchelor
Sat Jun 22 2013, 04:57PM
Registered Member #7739
Joined: Tue Jan 29 2013, 09:50PM
Posts: 49
Technically you still have player oppinion here, but I am relatively certain that both of these individuals have done their research and are correct.
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Kroogador
Wed Jun 26 2013, 11:21PM
Kroogador
Registered Member #133
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 11:00AM
Posts: 28
[Delivery][Effect], monsters can legitimately do wonky things now.

I'm stealing that poison obliterate call, I'm going to scare the pants off some players. Especially because I know they all have resists or poison shields up all the time.
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AsheBlackfist
Wed Jun 26 2013, 11:34PM
Registered Member #44
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:02AM
Posts: 147
I hope not. Obliterate is not scary. People have used it to denote authority and scariness in monsters, but it's become this overused, overstatted thing for every big monster. When I hear a monster using obliterate pointlessly, it makes me laugh more than feel scared.
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Jackson
Thu Jun 27 2013, 02:25AM
Baron of Cathym, Volta
Registered Member #90
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:44AM
Posts: 25
Now spellstrike Curse of tranformation: Permanent death is scary.
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Kroogador
Thu Jun 27 2013, 09:48PM
Kroogador
Registered Member #133
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 11:00AM
Posts: 28
AsheBlackfist wrote ...

I hope not. Obliterate is not scary. People have used it to denote authority and scariness in monsters, but it's become this overused, overstatted thing for every big monster. When I hear a monster using obliterate pointlessly, it makes me laugh more than feel scared.



It's scary for newbs with no lifespells. And of course if it's overused it becomes cheesy, but so does everything. One monster swinging massive can be intimidating, but you make every monster swing it and I'll get bored quickly. It's all about delivery! (Hyuk u c wat I did thar? )
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