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Formal Magic Manipulation
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Ubagluba
Fri Jul 12 2013, 08:44PM
ubagluba
Registered Member #183
Joined: Tue Aug 23 2011, 07:47AM
Posts: 14
A while ago I remember a good amount of people running around with ranks of Craftsman Other: Formal Manipulation. That allowed them to have some effect over the dark territory and flaw tables. Is this still, or was this ever really, a thing in the current edition? Would it be more of a chapter by chapter basis?
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BerenOlean
Fri Jul 12 2013, 09:09PM
BerenOlean
Registered Member #33
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 09:58AM
Posts: 222
That is not truly a thing. No craftsman skill gives you anything other than silver unless it is lco.
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Ubagluba
Fri Jul 12 2013, 10:39PM
ubagluba
Registered Member #183
Joined: Tue Aug 23 2011, 07:47AM
Posts: 14
I thought so, I've been finding a few things that I used to see that were dead wrong or should have been LCO only. Luckily any items made this way have long expired.
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Administrator
Sat Jul 13 2013, 09:44PM
Dark Lord of NERO

Registered Member #1
Joined: Mon May 30 2011, 02:21AM
Posts: 170
Craftsman: Other has always been just the silver as long as I have played. The rules have never formally recognized anything outside of that. Plot can and possibly will respond to some craftsman skills, and there are some chapters that have their own local "customs" of how they deal with certain CO's. One of the most common would be Craftsman: Tracking. A lot of chapters recognize that as a skill that they use for finding the bad guy and such.

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DavidFrahm
Mon Jul 15 2013, 02:11PM
Registered Member #113
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:52AM
Posts: 20
Actually, the Formal rules specifically note in Create High Horoscope that Craftsman (Astrologer) may assist in the formal giving more information. Additionally, the rulebook states that Craftsman skills MAY, at plot's discretion, give additional useful information. It's not a guarantee, however.

And using Craftsman to just make up other skills not handled by the game and don't relate to a specific craft is a bit silly, and kind of defeats the flavor of the skill.
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jvalenti
Mon Jul 15 2013, 04:07PM
Joseph Valenti

Registered Member #68
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:35AM
Posts: 600
Craftsman Other: Formal Manipulation would not be a valid craftsmen skill, since you are trying to alter the outcome of an existing skill. the craftsmen system has long been broken and will no longer give out free coin to players. Instead we are implementing a craftsmen system where the player gains resources within their estate from their skill and can use those resources to maintain their estate or buy and sell to other players (i.e. transfer of goods via the online db estate system), etc. etc. which we hope will enhance the game for many players as commodity trading occurs throughout the game. we'll have much more on this later.
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madhobling
Mon Jul 15 2013, 09:46PM
Registered Member #62
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:33AM
Posts: 48
What about those of use that have craftsman but have nothing to do with estates?

JFiles
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JBatchelor
Tue Jul 16 2013, 04:46AM
Registered Member #7739
Joined: Tue Jan 29 2013, 09:50PM
Posts: 49
I feel strongly that this is the wrong direction to go with this. Craftsman other abilities allow for character flavor that is not covered by the base rules. As long as it does not significantly alter the flow of game or an individuals interactions with others, I see no problems with allowing strange, flavorful COs. I personally loved the Teaching/Training CO's playtest that was available for a while during 8th edition. I was able to have many interesting interactions instructing many different characters in the use and manipulation of magic.

CO's should be left up to plot teams, national or otherwise, how much or little they want them to affect the game.

[ Edited Tue Jul 16 2013, 04:47AM ]
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jvalenti
Tue Jul 16 2013, 01:21PM
Joseph Valenti

Registered Member #68
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:35AM
Posts: 600
Craftsmen isn't 'tied' to the estate system, it's just part of it, so it won't have any affect on you other than giving you more options to interact with other players in regards to your craftsmen skills.
-- craftsmen commodity and craftsmen estate skills will be 'tag-able for in-game use/sale/trade' or 'add to my estate treasure' for buy sell trade but not physically carrying the stuff. there will be an option to convert to coin as well, which allows the commodity to be sold at standard rates and added to your total estate worth (added into the bank).
when i mention estate, i mean 'your characters total treasure' not necessarily an 'estate given by a plot team for you to manage' though they can be one in the same since they would be considered a characters 'estate'.
-- There is nothing stopping anyone from training/educating others in-game - so go right ahead and continue to do such a thing. We have the irongate adventuring academy doc that provides some useful details that can be used for advice. let me see if that made it up onto the website for download.
-- Plot personnel always have the opportunity to take a persons craftsmen skill or a new commodity skill, or an estate skill, or any other skill or ability in our game, and incorporate it into a storyline or adventure or both, so nothing is changing about what the plot team CAN DO. It's up to each plot person to decide what they run and who they run it for.
--- It's also worthy to note that too many players in the past wanted to use their whacky craftsmen skill for additional consideration from plot personnel - and sometimes to change the very rules of the game - and that is what caused 80% of the plot teams around the country to start complaining that craftsmen gives you silver and does not allow you to circumvent acts that must be completed or just outright give you a plot hook up from your pal (i.e. does not let your pal give you extra magic on your item when you cast a formal magic spell because you bought a non-standard skill-altering craftsmen skill which is not in our game and that cost 3 build.)
This is all still in the works, but we have a good draft and outline of what we'd like to see and how we'd like to integrate it into our game and online system. We'll have more to come in the future when we've added more substance to the write-up.
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