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Are claws an in game item?
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JBoyd
Tue Sep 03 2013, 02:13PM
Jerry Boyd

Registered Member #2539
Joined: Thu Jun 28 2012, 07:54PM
Posts: 30
Nope. You cannot do any of that stuff.

It is like having a sword in your hand.

Using a Two handed weapon in one handed and invoking "1 handed block" while fighting actively with another weapon in your other hand is an exploitation of the rules and was not the intention of "One handed Block". As such doing so is handled like any other rules violation by your local marshal.

Jerry Boyd
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AsheBlackfist
Tue Sep 03 2013, 07:29PM
Registered Member #44
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:02AM
Posts: 147
JBoyd wrote ...

Nope. You cannot do any of that stuff.

It is like having a sword in your hand.

Using a Two handed weapon in one handed and invoking "1 handed block" while fighting actively with another weapon in your other hand is an exploitation of the rules and was not the intention of "One handed Block". As such doing so is handled like any other rules violation by your local marshal.

Jerry Boyd


The bad news is, by the letter of the rules, you still are allowed to do it. I don't like it, I wouldn't do it, but that doesn't change the fact. Until it's officially clarified, RAW, you're allowed to do it. Local marshals always maintain discretion to say otherwise though.
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dalewyn
Tue Sep 03 2013, 07:58PM
Registered Member #29596
Joined: Sat Aug 03 2013, 11:30PM
Posts: 17
And hence why I posted this: it would seem consistent with the spirit of the rules to say "claws are a weapon" etc; but the letter of the rules is unclear, and seems to treat claws as a weapon for some circumstances, and not a weapon for others; also, many of the rules refer to "ingame items", and claws don't have a tag, so aren't technically an "ingame item", by those rules. Debate is good, clarifications are better :)

Grumbli / Dale
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JBoyd
Wed Sep 04 2013, 02:35AM
Jerry Boyd

Registered Member #2539
Joined: Thu Jun 28 2012, 07:54PM
Posts: 30
What rule makes you think this is allowed?

[ Edited Wed Sep 04 2013, 02:36AM ]
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dalewyn
Wed Sep 04 2013, 12:12PM
Registered Member #29596
Joined: Sat Aug 03 2013, 11:30PM
Posts: 17
From chapter III, the skill system, on shields:

"You cannot hold or carry any in game items in the hand and/or arm
being used to hold a shield or weapon. This includes gas globes,
magic items, weapons, etc. If you do so, any damage inflicted on
your shield or the weapon is NOT blocked and you take it as if you
didn’t have a shield."

On one handed block:

"This skill allows a bow, crossbow, polearm, two handed sword,
two handed blunt, or staff to block two blows with only one hand
on the weapon. The third blow will fumb le the holder of the
weapon as per the spell effect unless they grip the weapon’s handle
with two hands before the third strike. This skill cannot be used
while holding a weapon or shield in the opposite hand. This skill
is automatically known to anyone who purchases a two handed
weapon skill."

In the two examples above, they refer to "in game items" and "weapons". Claws don't have a tag, so could be considered to be not "in game" items; and Claw Mastery doesn't fulfill the pre-requisite for Florentine, so in this case claws are not considered a weapon. (One Handed Weapon Mastery does).
So, I'm merely asking for a ruling on this, so I know what claws are and are not, and how different rules do and do not interact with claws.
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Gabriel
Wed Sep 04 2013, 07:25PM
Registered Member #8078
Joined: Fri Feb 08 2013, 07:47PM
Posts: 14
dalewyn wrote ...
Claws don't have a tag, so could be considered to be not "in game" items; and Claw Mastery doesn't fulfill the pre-requisite for Florentine, so in this case claws are not considered a weapon.


Florentine
Prerequisite: A weapon skill

Racial Trait
Racial, Claw Mastery - 0BP

Claws are a weapon. Claw Mastery is not a weapon skill - It is listed under Racial Features. The verbiage is that you may wield a claw, not that you gain a weapon skill of that type. Just as Axe Mastery gives you the ability to wield all axes (which is a weapon) but does not give you one handed edged (the weapon skill).
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Macanut
Wed Sep 04 2013, 08:31PM
Registered Member #1823
Joined: Sun May 13 2012, 01:49AM
Posts: 6
"A question I haven't seen on the forums yet is can you hold a claw and another in-game item in the same hand?
Such as, an alchemy packet and a claw, and still parry with the claw?"

No, if you have an alchemy packet, and take a hit on the claw, you take the damage.

"Can you hold the claw in the same hand as a shield and still block with the shield (for instance, when grabbing a throwing knife with your "claw" hand)?"

No, anything that hits the shield would be the same as hitting your body. Hint: you can tuck the claw under your shield arm.

"Can you hold a claw in one hand and perform a One Handed Block with a 2 handed weapon with the other?"

No
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AsheBlackfist
Wed Sep 04 2013, 09:01PM
Registered Member #44
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:02AM
Posts: 147
Macanut wrote ...

"A question I haven't seen on the forums yet is can you hold a claw and another in-game item in the same hand?
Such as, an alchemy packet and a claw, and still parry with the claw?"

No, if you have an alchemy packet, and take a hit on the claw, you take the damage.

"Can you hold the claw in the same hand as a shield and still block with the shield (for instance, when grabbing a throwing knife with your "claw" hand)?"

No, anything that hits the shield would be the same as hitting your body. Hint: you can tuck the claw under your shield arm.

"Can you hold a claw in one hand and perform a One Handed Block with a 2 handed weapon with the other?"

No



I agree with your interpretation, but it is only that. That's why a clarification was asked for.
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dalewyn
Thu Sep 05 2013, 04:06AM
Registered Member #29596
Joined: Sat Aug 03 2013, 11:30PM
Posts: 17
Gabriel wrote ...

dalewyn wrote ...
Claws don't have a tag, so could be considered to be not "in game" items; and Claw Mastery doesn't fulfill the pre-requisite for Florentine, so in this case claws are not considered a weapon.


Florentine
Prerequisite: A weapon skill

Racial Trait
Racial, Claw Mastery - 0BP

Claws are a weapon. Claw Mastery is not a weapon skill - It is listed under Racial Features. The verbiage is that you may wield a claw, not that you gain a weapon skill of that type. Just as Axe Mastery gives you the ability to wield all axes (which is a weapon) but does not give you one handed edged (the weapon skill).


First off, you can't have your cake and eat it too; if claws are a weapon, then claw mastery is a weapon skill. Second, since Axe Mastery does fulfill the requirement for Florentine (according to the online character generator, anyway), then Axe Mastery IS considered a weapon skill (also, according to the online character generator). If Axe Mastery is considered a valid prerequisite for Florentine, then Claw Mastery should be as well; unless claws aren't a weapon.

EDIT: Hammer Mastery also counts as pre-requisite for Florentine. Claws are the only one handed weapon skill that doesn't. Again, making claws a class of their own.

You seem to be misinterpreting my intent with this thread, anyway; I'm really not arguing for a conclusion, I'm trying to point out what I see as loose threads in the rules concerning claws.

I'm not terribly interested in debating the rules, I'd rather get an official ruling, to avoid arguments in the middle of a game...

[ Edited Thu Sep 05 2013, 04:16AM ]
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dalewyn
Thu Sep 05 2013, 04:12AM
Registered Member #29596
Joined: Sat Aug 03 2013, 11:30PM
Posts: 17
Macanut wrote ...

"A question I haven't seen on the forums yet is can you hold a claw and another in-game item in the same hand?
Such as, an alchemy packet and a claw, and still parry with the claw?"

No, if you have an alchemy packet, and take a hit on the claw, you take the damage.

"Can you hold the claw in the same hand as a shield and still block with the shield (for instance, when grabbing a throwing knife with your "claw" hand)?"

No, anything that hits the shield would be the same as hitting your body. Hint: you can tuck the claw under your shield arm.

"Can you hold a claw in one hand and perform a One Handed Block with a 2 handed weapon with the other?"

No



Hint: you can tuck the claw under your shield arm.

"You cannot hold or carry any in game items in the hand and/or arm
being used to hold a shield or weapon."

The above quote would suggest that if the arm is used in securing the claw, it would still count as being held by the hand / arm. Can you tuck a weapon under your shield arm, or is that considered "holding" it with the arm? Should be the same rule for both, if a claw is an in-game weapon.
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