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Shatter
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AndrewI
Fri Sep 27 2013, 01:17AM
Owner, NERO New Brunswick
Registered Member #107
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:50AM
Posts: 176
BerenOlean wrote ...

Andrew, you previously said the following. "I summon a force to shatter your weapon. Lets you pick a sword, hammer, axe etc, but you cannot pick a rendered item unless you have no others, and you cannot pick a shield (specific rules for this)."

What specific rule are you talking about regarding shield not being choosable. On page 104 table 7-1 Shield is considered a weapon. Shield is part of the weapon and armor skill table on page 31. Shield is NOT a weapon skill according to the weapon skills area starting on page 43. The Fumble spell on page 74 states "A shield is not considered a "weapon" for purposes of this spell." The shatter spell says that it may be cast upon any weapon or shield. Shields cannot be offensive weapons according to page 86.

From all of the wording differences, it is unclear as to the intent regarding shield. It is created as a weapon and used in combat as a weapon, yet the skill for its use is not a weapon skill. I am not arguing your interpretation is incorrect, but I see it the other way. A clarification on that from national would be wonderful.


I don't have access to my rulebook atm - but it was either in the spell description, item description or under the target rules - it may have been a clarification, I'll know when I'm on my home PC :)
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JSchneider
Fri Sep 27 2013, 02:38AM
Jonathan Schneider

Registered Member #8146
Joined: Mon Feb 18 2013, 03:39AM
Posts: 120
I found a name of an individual on the rules team......what sacrifices do you offer for it?
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-CRIMSON
Fri Sep 27 2013, 04:42AM
-CRIMSON
Registered Member #18
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 09:49AM
Posts: 207
ill sacrifice the person you name.
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Gabriel
Fri Sep 27 2013, 02:08PM
Registered Member #8078
Joined: Fri Feb 08 2013, 07:47PM
Posts: 14
BerenOlean wrote ...

- On page 104 table 7-1 Shield is considered a weapon.
- Shield is part of the weapon and armor skill table on page 31.
- Shield is NOT a weapon skill according to the weapon skills area starting on page 43.
- The Fumble spell on page 74 states "A shield is not considered a "weapon" for purposes of this spell."
- The shatter spell says that it may be cast upon any weapon or shield.
- Shields cannot be offensive weapons according to page 86.


Maybe this is helpful:

The Shield skill and the Shatter spell refer to Shield and Weapon as separate. The only reference above that definitively implies that Shield is also a Weapon is table 7-1 which looks more like an oversight on heading word choice.

Shield being placed under "Weapons & Armor" on page 31 doesn't imply that a shield is a weapon any more than it would imply florentine, style master, and other words are weapons so this can be ignored.

Fumble on page 74 "A shield is not considered a "weapon" for purposes of this spell."
This doesn't necessarily imply that a shield is considered a weapon in other cases, only that a shield is not considered a weapon in this case, which could be just the same as all other cases.

"Shields cannot be used as offensive weapons. Shields are strictly for defense." page 86
This does not state that it's a defensive weapon, only that it cannot be an offensive weapon and is used strictly for defence.

TLDR: Ignoring Table 7-1's heading, Shields are not Weapons.

[ Edited Fri Sep 27 2013, 02:09PM ]
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BerenOlean
Fri Sep 27 2013, 02:37PM
BerenOlean
Registered Member #33
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 09:58AM
Posts: 222
I can agree with some of your thoughts. I agree it is marked seperate and should be considered a seperate item, however those discrepancies are enough to make it understandable in either direction. I am not arguing for one way or the other, but would like it clearly clarified so there is no room for arguement.
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psychie
Fri Sep 27 2013, 11:33PM
Slappy Mountain-Giant
Registered Member #1106
Joined: Tue Apr 03 2012, 09:41PM
Posts: 66
on the thieves tools, unless the whole set of tools were one tool with different parts (like a swiss army knife), you couldn't shatter all of them, that would be multiple targets, unless you specify the bag that they are in, and if the thief happens to also disarm traps, then the pair of scissors that they use to cut wires etc. when disarming traps would be a valid target, because that is a tool used in thieving, same goes for anything that is used in a rogues skill, but if they only have a set of lock picks, if the set is made up of multiple tools, then you could only target one piece of the set, it is only common sense.
thank you,
sincerely,
-Jacob Bissey/Slappy-
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AndrewI
Sat Sep 28 2013, 12:47PM
Owner, NERO New Brunswick
Registered Member #107
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:50AM
Posts: 176
BerenOlean wrote ...

Andrew, you previously said the following. "I summon a force to shatter your weapon. Lets you pick a sword, hammer, axe etc, but you cannot pick a rendered item unless you have no others, and you cannot pick a shield (specific rules for this)."


My notes indicate Nov 6,2012 there was a clarification that made sense here - but I cannot find it for the life of me. It was likely as Bryan pointed out related to Fumble, but I can't point you to where I pulled that from.

Again with few rules clarifications nationally approved it's hard to roll with something unless the arguments here from other chapters make sense. We use some of them up here to help us help our players.
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NickDenny
Fri Oct 18 2013, 03:24AM
NERO LARP Staff

Registered Member #122
Joined: Mon Aug 08 2011, 10:56AM
Posts: 81
Nor sure what has been answered, here are some answers:
Motye wrote ...

I have been involved in a discussion lately on the effects of a shatter (and what can be targeted).

If a pouch is shattered, then unless it resists; it is shattered and all its contents destroyed.
Correct
wrote ...
If a belt is shattered, then any pouches and items directly touching the belt are destroyed, but your contents of the pouch would survive (as they do not directly touch the item shattered).
All items inside a container that is shattered take a shatter effect.
wrote ...
Any in use item (so a cantrip tome) could be shattered (even when hidden from view) if it is being used (unless protected by a resistant item (like a SR Pouch)
Any item on your person can be shattered visible or not.
wrote ...
Items that are not currently in use or visible cannot be shattered (so thieves tools in a pouch could not be targeted)
Answered above.
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